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[Sandra63]

Well, how was Rudy's day today?  Beulah likes the car rides too....every day we drive.  Have you tried
vanilla yogurt or frozen yogurt?  Have you also tried a raw diet for Rudy? You know if you go to the butcher/grocer they will break open packages of livers, chicken hearts, wings...and give you a very small portion to try? Actually I just found out that raw chicken wings are safe for dogs to eat (but once you cook'em - NO!). 

I started Beulah on Silver Biotics from the herb/nature store on Thursday, giving her a teaspoon every 4 hrs.  She had an awful Friday night throwing up far more than ever before, 5 times....BUT since then NOTHING!!
I am convinced that the Silver Biotics had something to do with it - like kicking the crap out of the blasto. Just thought I'd share in case you want to try with Rudy (every little bit helps). It kills all known pathagens - including yeast. All natural. No side effects.  Can give in liquid form or cream (for skin). So safe that you can spray it right in the eyes, if you are having eye problems...and it's for humans and animals! take care 

[Rudy]

Thanks, we'll give all of your suggestions a try. We're tired of feeding him the A/D dog food and pureed stuff so I'm sure Rudy is too. I've heard about the raw meat diet and I've always been little leery but at this stage, I'll try anything.  Glad to hear Beulah is doing better!

[Wilson3]

I am sadden to see we have some more new people...glad to see things seem to be going well! It takes a looooong time to get better but well worth it! Feed what ever you can be careful when starting the raw diet if your dog is very ill and not use to raw meats Would wait because most dogs can get a loose stool if you add the probiotics that help to change them over. There systems are lacking the enzymes to properly digest raw food. The raw diet is great many health issue do get better when feed raw
Evo has a great grain free can food you might try My boys love tripe but it smells bad and if your dog has never had it ,it can cause the runs also
try a good piece of steak on the grill with some garlic on it or boil some liver and then put garlic on it in the over for a while the smell makes my boys drool
you are both in my thoughts chin up and stay strong and positive your dogs will need your strenght
wilson3

[Wilson3]

Raw Bee Pallon from a health store works well also to get them to get it also helps the immune system
put right on top of the food has a natrual sweetness to it
how much depends on dog weight
wilson3

[evayola]

How is Rudy doing? I agree with Wilson3 about starting the raw diet now, it may be hard on Rudys digestive system. We did feed Marge the Evo and she loved it! Of course that lasted only a few days like everything she ate when she was sick but definitely worth a shot. Right now Marge is eating Merrick's line of canned food and they come in some great flavors, Grammys Pot Pie, Cowboy Cookout, Working Dog Stew (tripe). Those are just a few. We put them in the microwave and the smell really gets Marge going, even to this day! We buy our food at a natural pet store but it seems as though more places are starting to carry these products.

Thinking of you guys,

Eva

[Rudy]

Just got back from the vets.  We were really worried since Rudy was going through another bad spell with laboured and noisy grunt-like breathing, lethargic, not wanting to eat or drink today, eyes red & swollen & full of mucous and he was bleeding from his nose.  With his 18 pound weight loss on his already slender body; and the development of emphysema last week, it did not look too promising to us.

The visit to the vets relieved us from our worst fears; the vet was positive about his progress.  Rudy for the first time since becoming ill, has gained weight (two pounds this past week)!  Apparently, it is typically three months of this roller-coaster of ups and downs before we'll be well on our way to recovery.  For now, we're just so happy & very grateful!

Thanks for your support and continued suggestions; it really helps.  I'm even more motivated to work with Rudy on his eating and will look for the other types of dog food recommended since Rudy seems to like variety.

Sheila & Paul

[jefndebbacon]

Hi Sheila and Paul!  Good news about Rudy's weight gain - yeah!  Keep us posted.  Hugs and prayers.  Deb

[Rudy]

We just got a call from our vet that she’d like Rudy to come in for two chest x-rays and that we need to up his Itraconazole (150 mg) to twice/ day, continue his anti-biotic, Clavamox 375 mg twice/day and add another (which I have to call for the name).

She said she didn’t like the sound of his lungs last Friday- they sound much worse.  She is concerned that he may have pneumonia or the presence of “walled off nodules”? in his lungs & that the medication may not be getting through properly.

One of his liver enzymes is elevated but the main one that is usually the issue is fine.  She is thinking we may need to change his meds to another that is cheaper but requires hospitalization to be administered by IV.  So I’m not sure of the logic to increase the Itraconazole. And we feel that in many ways he is better at home- he eats/feeds better and he can’t afford to lose any more weight, plus we can’t afford the hospital fees for any significant length of time.

We were also surprised since she didn’t mention her concern about his lungs at our appt five days ago.  Also, he seems to be breathing much better to us.

We have mentioned to both her and our regular vet that we need to concentrate our limited funds on treatment vs. tests.  We already conceded to the blood work last Friday with the total cost over $400.  She is saying that Rudy should be in hospital & that the x-rays & additional meds are a compromise.  While we want the best for Rudy, we can’t blow our finances on tests that may or may not help with Rudy’s progress. It would be wonderful to have unlimited funds and get every test and treatment possible but we have to be selective & go for the most effective plan of action.

We also asked for the prescriptions so we could fill them at a human pharmacy which is much cheaper but she said that there are two different forms of Itraconazole and that we need the special one from Guelph: it is the best and Rudy needs the best for his treatment right now.

Does anyone have any comments/advice on any of this?  Any other natural products besides milk thistle to protect his liver?  We’re concerned about overloading his body with too many drugs, even too many natural products and how all of it relates to the effectiveness of his key meds, especially the Itraconazole.  Also, we didn’t give him his heartworm med (revolution) or flea/tick (K9 advantix 55) in case it interferes with his Blasto med. 

We appreciate your input and knowledge from your experiences.

Thanks,
Sheila & Paul

[evayola]

Did she say what drug they want to administer through iv? If it is amphotericin b then here is some quick info on it and maybe do some research on it yourself as well...  http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/amphotericin-b/page1.aspx

That is very odd that she didnt bring this up to you 5 days ago. It seems like something pretty important to mention to you in person while Rudy was there. When she was seeing Rudy, were you in the room? When Marges vet listens to her lungs she gives us her opinion right there on the spot on how they sound. How much does Rudy weigh? Here is what I found about the dosage in regards to his weight. "The usual dose is 2.5 mg per pound one to two times per day for dogs orally." (copied from Petplace.com) Maybe the vet thinks that the blasto is not dying fast enough and you need to hit it harder. That is what we had to do for Marge.

What are her reasons for wanting Rudy in the hospital? Just to administer the drugs? In my situation, Marge felt much much better when she was at home and not at the vet. Think about when you are sick. The best place to be is at home in your bed. Is there something that you can be doing at home to save costs? It is so hard to decide which to do or not to do. It may be worth the chest xray to see exactly what IS going on in there. It could be worse than you thought OR it could be better and she may have been wrong. Its all up to you and what your piece of mind is worth to you. When we were really strapped for cash and going through all this with Marge, they discounted the xrays for us because we were doing it so much. Maybe speak with the manager or owner if possible. I wouldnt worry about not giving the flea or heartworm meds. We didnt give any while Marge was on her antifungal and even now my holistic vet said that I should only be giving Marge the heartworm every 2 months because of everything that she has going on. Follow your gut, you will make the right decision for you and Rudy. Keep us posted!

Eva

[Rudy]

Thanks Eva.  We thought it was strange to get a call 5 days after our appt and that nothing was said about Rudy's lungs sounding worse at the visit when we were right there.  In fact, we were left with the impression that we were doing well, all things considering.  We've been thinking about it and Paul thinks maybe this new & more aggressive plan of action came about perhaps after a consultation with another vet at Guelph.  We can't be sure but nothing else makes sense & we know she was trying to set some kind of consultation up. 

We didn't take him in today.  Our vet was on night shift & is now off for a few days but I'm going to call & see if another can clarify why we need two anti-biotics, what exactly do they hope to find out from the x-rays and if the results could make a significant impact/change in the treatment plan, plus the exact name of the other blasto drug they are considering etc. I'll also ask the price and about discounts, if available.

Thanks also for the medication link.  From what I can see from the site and also the main reason our vet would hospitalize Rudy again is because of this drug via IV.  It looks like because it would be hard on his kidneys, he'd need to be on IV continuously?

I'll find out more; then Paul & I will have to figure out what's best. We'll keep you posted once we know more and perhaps have the x-ray results if we do go that route.

Thanks for your input. 

Sheila & Paul

[Pairie Girl]

Just wanted to say Good Luck.  Out Rottie was in a similar situation and get significantly worse before she got better.  It was like she woke up one morning and all of a sudden, the medicine started to work.  She went from no appetite for 3 - 4 weeks (lost 26 pounds) to a full normal appetite one morning.  Our biggest problem was that she was trying to eat too much and her stomache had shrunk so she was throwing up.  Have faith - it is always darkest before the dawn.

[Rudy]

Thanks for the info; Rudy has started eating one meal by hand per day for the last 3 days.  We've noticed that sometimes after a force-fed meal, he'll eat boiled chicken by hand mixed w/ puppy kibble or chicken strips/treats, plus I've increased the amount of food with each feeding so hopefully that will help. 

We haven't been able to give an update lately; we’ve been so immersed with Rudy’s care.  Not only has it been so up & down for Rudy, it's also been up & down for Paul & I & our vets.  We've been to the vets at least twice/week in the last 3-4 weeks and usually one time/week we think this is it but the vet(s) are hopeful he'll make it; & the other visit, the vets think he's not doing well & we think he's improved.

Just over a week ago, our vet recommended doubling-up on his Intraconazole, continue with the anti-biotic, Claramox and start another (can't remember the name off-hand but the two anti-biotics are supposed to cover most types of infections) and start giving him fluids sub-q (1,000 ml twice/day). She said if he was still the same by today (if no significant improvements in these last five days) &/or if he lost any more weight that we would have to make a decision. (He had lost a few of the 5-6 pounds he had put back on from the 18 or so he’s lost.)

The vet mentioned that he could go on steroids but that would probably kill him since it'll suppress his immune system and he's fighting other infections and possibly pneumonia too.  She thinks he might have a clump of Blasto in his lungs that the meds can not penetrate through. We can try another Blasto drug but it would require hospitalization for possibly five or more days since it's administered by I.V.  We were given an estimated minimum cost of @$500/day.

We decided not to put him on steroids and that further hospitalization was not an option, not only because of the expense but because it would probably mean other intrusive treatment/procedures & possibly feeding tube etc and the risk of other unforeseen complications.  Plus, he would probably do worse away from home in many ways.

It’s difficult to tell how Rudy is doing.  We really don’t know anymore especially when he has a bad spell; we agonize over what is the right and best thing for him. Just as we think we’re making headway (Rudy has improved in many aspects), something else happens.  His breathing is much better & yesterday, he happily trotted up the stairs and showed interest in one of his toys for the first time but then late evening & overnight, he has had 3 or 4 nosebleeds. He’s had a couple of nosebleeds in the last few weeks but not four in less than 8 hours & not as heavy.  He was panting most of the night and licking his front paws excessively.  We put socks on his paws and distracted him until he stopped & he eventually fell asleep around 4 a.m.

I called the hospital today thinking he might be having a reaction to the meds but they think if that were the case, it would have been w/i a day or so of start-up.  They mentioned that because he has been extremely sick that there might be something going on with his platelets.

Paul took Rudy to the vets today but I haven’t heard the outcome.  Anyone have any similar experiences as we’re having?  Know anything about what could be causing these nosebleeds; could it be part of the disease? How to stop/prevent them? 

He really has improved in so many ways; more energy, more engaged and playful & cuddly in fleeting moments but there seems to be something new & unexpected that happens every week to set us back. For the most part, he looks better and you can tell he feels much better; it’s just these nosebleeds that have become our latest concern.

Sheila & Paul

[Wilson3]

I think it is wonderful to hear Rudy is eating! a great sign! 
The sad thing with this disease is that recover is very loooong..... to say the least.
Wilson was on on bed rest for 3 months no walks no play no nothing he was to use all his energy to fight the disease. activities where added very slowly vets sometimes think of there own pocket books before anything else. I would say once a week I would see improvements in Wilson they came very slow it is like going 3 forward and 2 back every week. But slowly it turns to 3 forward then 1 back and so on and so on...
So vets think they can recover very fast from blasto and should show more improvement. I was told Wilson would never make it buy many drs. his vet had faith and said when there is life there is hope. He also said it is a VERY long haul and many ups and downs expect to spend all your time caring for him he was so right . Now almost 3 yrs later Wilson beat the odds and many do so do not always listen with your heart... sometimes vets push things only  for there pockets to expand and ours shrink they play on our feelings for our pets.
I would be a bit worried about all this medicine changing and and dose there is a "safe" dose a dog/cat can handle, to much will also kill them. 
Rudy sounds about where most get with being on treatment this far many do loose more weight in the beginning but then slowly they become little porkers. wilson ended up on a little diet after wards.
Why does your vet need to see Rudy 2x's a week?
I think you guys are doing great !!!
many thoughts and prayers your way
wilson3

[Rudy]

Thanks for the encouragement and giving us an idea of just how long this can be.  He actually gained 3.85 pounds this week & he does seem so much better in so many ways, particularly his breathing. and the feeding do go more smoothly.

We've been taking him to the vets usually once/week when he has had new & scary symptoms i.e. that crinkling/crackling sound throughout his body; when our vet got info back from consultations re testing that should be done like the chest x-rays and liver enzymes; and then when he was completely depleted of energy and started these nose bleeds.  He goes for weekly weigh-ins and yesterday because of the increase in volume & frequency of his nose bleeds, the tech checked him over as a courtesy.

We are learning not to panic right away when new things happen.  Yesterday evening I did call in when I thought some of the sub-q fluid had gone into his throat area & hadn't dissolved from the morning.  They said it was okay but then later Rudy threw up some of his last feeding and in it was a lot of slime & thick blood clots that looked like pieces of uncooked liver.  The swelling in his neck was less after that so we waited it out to see how he'd do. We're hoping it means that some bad stuff came out and that is was a good sign & we didn't call the vets because we're sure they would have wanted to see him.  I think you're right that we've got to keep positive and focus on the improvements.  We just want to be sure he gets treatment when necessary & often it's difficult to tell what is normal part of this disease that we just have to go through & what requires some kind of medical care.  We look forward to when his progress becomes more steps forward soon and less back.  We did realize that we've graduated from "intensive car" those first few weeks to "palliative' type of care & we can now even have friends that will look after him when we have a socail engagemnt which we gratefully call home care.  There was a time when onlyy we could look after him s we have made significant progress.

We're wondering how often and what kind of testing is vital & what we can let slide.  We had his liver enzymes checked just over one week ago & I think the vet wants to check them again in another week or so.  He does groan when he pees so not sure if we need that checked &/or some kind of treatment is required. 


Sheila

[evayola]

I too think that Rudy is showing some positive signs. Have you done the MiraVista antigen test? Maybe you can do that to see where Rudy's #s are and use that as a gauge to see his progress. It took well over a month before Marge showed any interest in anything. When she finally wagged her tail and picked up her favorite squeeky soccer ball we were over the moon excited! We were taking Marge to the vet at least twice a week as well. We were so terrified with how she was breathing and the way her eyes looked that every little thing was an emergency to us. One day our vet sat in the office with us and cried with us because she didnt think Marge was going to make it in the long run but she told us the same thing as Wilson, if Marge is willing to fight we need to too. Marge was such a trooper and so is Rudy! Stay strong and remember that it is a fungus and it will not die immediately and takes time. Rudy sounds like he is making great progress and you just need to encourage him everyday and tell him that he is doing GREAT! We gave Marge sub q fluids at home and it was one of the best things we could have done. It helped her greatly. I would highly recommend having the vet show you how to do it and you guys doing it at home where RUdy is his most comfy.

Why is Rudy on antibiotics with the itraconazole? If Rudy is groaning when he is peeing, I would recommend having his kidneys tested to make sure he is concentrating his urine properly. Marge did have one nosebleed and I found my old post regarding it...

 Re: Bosun bleeding from the nose now: Help!
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2007, 08:58:09 PM » Quote Modify Remove  

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here is my old post...


Tuesday I was walking Marge and it was really strange - she picked her head up and blood was pouring out of her nose. It was out of one nostril and I ran inside and grabbed paper towels til it stopped. I called the vet and we went right away. The vet thought that Marge looked pretty good. She did lose some weight but the vet thinks it is because Marge was sooo hungry that she was eating more than normal and now her hunger is at a normal level so her weight is fluctuating. I think I just need to up her food but with a big dog I am scared of her stomach twisting as she already eats 3 cups dry food & one chicken breast twice daily. The vet said that her lungs sound the best they have ever sounded and she can hear breathing in EVERY SINGLE LUNG CAVITY!!!!!!   That made me super excited. So, the vet didn't want to alarm me on the phone but the reason that she had me come in is because with fluconozole in humans it can reduce your blood platelets but there has never been a reported case in an animal and she didn't want Marge to be the first. So, we ran bloodwork on marge to check everything. Her liver and kidney values are great. Her red blood cells are lower than normal. When Marge was first sick she was at 42% and then halfway through then and now it was 40% and now she is at 38%. The vet was concerned but not alarmed because you just want to stay above 40%. The vet thinks that Marge may be developing an ulcer due to the medication. She is on 300mg 1x daily of fluconozole and one dose of deramaxx daily to help with her torn acl pain. We took her off the deramaxx as this can increase stomach irritation. We now have to have her on pepcid 10mg 2x daily along with another pill that we have to dissolve to help coat her stomach. I am hoping that it is nothing serious. Her activity level has been great and I have been taking her with me to work often. She loves that. Her tolerance her Homer's shennanigans is definitely decreasing. She has never ever had an ounce of meanness but it seems as though since she has gotten sick she doesn't want to put up with his crap. It cracks us up because he is such a puppy at heart even though he is three and Marge is like the grandma that doesn't want to do those silly things. I thank God everyday that Marge is still with us because we almost lost her and I swear that if we would have continued with the aggressive treatment and higher dosages we would have killed her. I am so happy with the progress that she has made. She lights up my life. I love when I come home and she want to do nothing but suck on my fingers like a baby. She follows me around the house just gumming my hand. I cannot imagine life without her - without any of my animals. They are the greatest thing ever! I will keep everyone posted on Marge and wish everyone the best. I am always here to answer any questions because I know how heart wrenching this disease is.